ACCESS FEED: RE: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value

Russ-

I think Bill is suggesting that code in forms should to the checking and
deleting after prompting the user. Consider the relationship Customer ->
Order -> OrderDetails. If a user deletes a customer in a database with
Cascade Delete turned on, he or she may not realize that perhaps thousands
of rows will also disappear. I personally use Cascade Delete often, but
then I also write code to check and inform the user in the Delete event of
every form. Something like: "This action will permanently delete customer
XXXX along with 540 Orders and 1,659 Order Detail records. Are you SURE you
want to proceed?"

John Viescas, Author
Microsoft Access 2010 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2007 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2003 Inside Out
Building Microsoft Access Applications
SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
http://www.viescas.com/
(Paris, France)

-----Original Message-----
From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ghsclass65
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 4:43 PM
To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value

Bill,

I do not understand your statement that relationships should not have
cascading updates/deletes turned on. I build all my db that way and if I do
not turn that feature on, then when someone deletes a record, it's related
records in the connected tables are not deleted resulting in records that
are in limbo with no corresponding records in other tables.

Russ

--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@...>
wrote:
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> The user who did not delete a record would be the one who sees the
> #deleted. It wouldn't cause chaos. User1 would just have to refresh the
form.
>
>
>
> Tampering with data directly in a table can be dangerous. Users should
> have no way of opening tables. And relationships should not have
> cascading updates/deletes turned on. Cascading stuff should only be
> done by the DB administrator should it ever be necessary.
>
>
>
> When I mentioned the problem with network connectivity I was saying
> the record itself could be corrected. By backing out of the form,
> compacting the db and then opening the form again to re-enter the
> data usually cleans up the corruption.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray
> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:54 AM
> To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Bill
>
> Thanks for that. The part of the database that is having these errors
> has the structure tblContacts has many tblContactNotes. If User1 was
> using the form correctly (form for Contact, subform for Notes) whilst
> User2 went directly to the tblContactNotes and deleted a record -
> would that cause chaos? Perhaps even #deleted?
>
> If I can come up with a plausible reason as to why some records are
> being corrupted (data lost and replaced with #deleted) I'm sure that I
> can change this culture of tampering with the tables and lock the database
down.
>
> Finally, you said that network connectivity could be easily remedied -
> is this an Access thing or a network server thing? Where should I start to
look?
>
> Thanks for your help with this.
> Ray
>
> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca"
> <wrmosca@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > The first person to open the database is not creating a lock file.
> > It is a
> locking file. This file is used by the JET/ACE engine to lock records
> that are being edited, nothing more as long as the form in use has
> it's record locking set to Edited Record. That keeps more than one
> person at a time from changing a record.
> >
> > This is not the same as opening the database exclusively. If the
> > first person
> opens it exclusively or opens an object in design mode everyone else
> is locked out. Exclusive mode actually locks out all others from the
entire db file.
> Splitting the database and making sure each user is using his own copy
> of the front end will still protect the records, but will not lock
> others out of the back end. That is because the back end is never opened
directly by a user.
> >
> > Your multi-user db would benefit from splitting. It's very rare that
> > a back
> end table gets corrupt. Sometimes a record will corrupt due to loss of
> network connectivity, but that sort of thing is easily remedied.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray" <rayfrew@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bill
> > >
> > > The sad situation is that the database is not split, it's just one
> > > file on a
> server. Two people use it during the day by using Access to open the mdb
file.
> The first person to open the database will create the lock file - I'm
> not sure what happens when the next person opens the database (whilst
> the first person is still using it). Another aspect is that one person
> in India connects to the server overnight and does some data input.
> > >
> > > I've suggested that the database be split but so far have been met
> > > with
> "Why? Everything's working and not causing a problem" - well now, perhaps
it is.
> Especially as one of the errors says that an update cannot be done
> because someone else is updating - yet there is only one person using the
database.
> > >
> > > If I split the database for them (data on server, forms etc on
> > > clients) will
> the first person to open the database still create a lock file and be
> the "owner" or does it work differently? I know that splitting a
> database is good practice but can you give me any pointers to the
> types of problems splitting solves?
> > >
> > > Many thanks
> > > Ray
> > >
> > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca"
> <wrmosca@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ray
> > > > >I don't think that an index was removed in this case because
> > > > >the users wouldn't know how to. However, it is more likely that
> > > > >there was a network problem - apparently that happens
> > > > >occasionally.
> > > >
> > > > I agree. Do you have the database in a split configuration with
> > > > the tables
> on a server and the forms, reports, queries etc on the users' local
> drive? That would immensely reduce future corruption...at least as far
> as the forms and queries are concerned .
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray" <rayfrew@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Roberto
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think that an index was removed in this case because
> > > > > the users
> wouldn't know how to. However, it is more likely that there was a
> network problem - apparently that happens occasionally.
> > > > >
> > > > > Things have moved forward now, because the database has been
> > > > > recovered
> from a backup, data is being rekeyed and another backup is about to be
taken.
> Probably best to take more than one eh?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for your help.
> > > > > Ray
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "RobertoARV"
> <robertoarv@>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sometimes when it happens , an index is removed, then you
> > > > > > need to
> delete
> > > > > > records showing deleted# mark , run a compact database ,
> > > > > > recreate the
> index
> > > > > > and then create a blank database and import all objects from
> > > > > > fixed database.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
> RobertoARV
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:28 AM
> > > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have seen this for years with this database , often
> > > > > > happens when you migrate same database to another upper
> > > > > > version, you need to install
> all the
> > > > > > Microsoft jet service patches. it also occurs when you edit
> > > > > > same
> record in 2
> > > > > > computers , it shows deleted in other computer but it get
> > > > > > fix when you
> run a
> > > > > > requery in form or simply close form and open it again. it
> > > > > > happens too
> when
> > > > > > a network disconnect occurs when you are editing a record.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Bill
> Mosca
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:39 AM
> > > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ray
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The most likely cause is a corrupted index. It might have
> > > > > > been saved
> if you
> > > > > > imported it into a blank database (which sometimes fixes bad
indices).
> I'm
> > > > > > glad
> > > > > > there was a backup, though. That was good thinking on your
> > > > > > friend's
> side.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Bill Mosca,
> > > > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals That'll do IT
> > > > > > <http://thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com MS Access MVP
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> <https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=C4D9F5E7-BB03-4291-B816-642
> 707308
> > > > > > 81E>
> > > > > >
> https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=C4D9F5E7-BB03-4291-B816-6427
> 073088
> > > > > > 1E
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Nothing-to-do-with Access blog
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <http://wrmosca.wordpress.com> http://wrmosca.wordpress.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Ray
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:39 AM
> > > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can you shed some light on this mystery? A friend has an
> > > > > > Access 2003
> db and
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > table has some rows with #deleted in each field rather than
> > > > > > the data
> that
> > > > > > used
> > > > > > to be there. I suspect that they have used the "delete
> > > > > > record" button
> from
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > toolbar to delete a few rows (I know, not a good idea) and
> > > > > > that
> something
> > > > > > went
> > > > > > wrong. When a query runs on this table it returns an error
> > > > > > saying that
> a
> > > > > > record
> > > > > > has been deleted and then stops dead.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We recovered the database from a backup and life has moved on.
> However, I've
> > > > > > never seen this before, have you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Many thanks
> > > > > > Ray
> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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