ACCESS FEED: RE: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

And the plot thickens! Good Halloween thread.

Liz Ravenwood
Programmer/Analyst
Super First Class Products
B/E Aerospace
O: 1.520.239.4808
www.beaerospace.com

-----Original Message-----
From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Viescas
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:42 AM
To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Phil-

I need to know how these permissions are being enforced. What version of Access are you using, and if 2003 or earlier, are you using the built-in Access User-Level security? What is different about this form from the ones that work regardless of the permission?

I'll just keep asking questions until you stumble on the answer!

John Viescas, Author
Microsoft Access 2010 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2007 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2003 Inside Out
Building Microsoft Access Applications
SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
http://www.viescas.com/
(Paris, France)

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Knowles <pdk444444@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: <MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:12 AM
To: "MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com"
<MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

John

You have asked the key question - you are a true exorcist !!!

In Permissions on this form, the 2 groups were different

the permissions are Open/Run, Read Design, Modify Design and Administer

One group had all of these the other just had Open/Run

The group with Open/Run only was the group which was working properly - the other group with all the permissions was getting the first record

I took away the 3 permissions and hey presto the current record is now maintained in moving from datasheet view to form view.

I never imagined that this could be causing this problem - in fact when I think about it, it must be this in conjunction with something else because I have other forms with the same permissions setup which work consistently when moving from datasheet view to form view.

With this in mind could you please explain why having those permissions could cause the effect I was getting

Thankyou for all your help.

cheers

Phil

________________________________
From: John Viescas <JohnV@msn.com>
To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2012, 9:39
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Phil-

Are there any restrictions applied to this form? If so, where is it done, and what are the restrictions?

John Viescas, Author
Microsoft Access 2010 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2007 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2003 Inside Out
Building Microsoft Access Applications
SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
http://www.viescas.com/
(Paris, France)

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Knowles <mailto:pdk444444%40yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:30 AM
To: "mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com"
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Hi John

Thanks for sticking with me on this one!

The reason for the 2 different groups is only to prevent or restrict access to certain parts of the database.

For example, there are some reports that groupA can view but GroupB can't and there are some areas of data where GroupA can delete data but GroupB can't

These restrictions are achieved in the Manage Users and Permissions area by setting diiferent permissions to the reports/forms/queries/macros/tables for the 2 groups.

All logic that has been added does what it needs to do by actions dependent on currentuser()

As I mentioned briefly before, I maybe could achieve some of this by testing currentgroup() but I don't know and haven't checked whether such a variable is available - so this is not relevant to my current problem - but could you alos please tell me if currentgroup() is valid?

cheers

Phil

PS. Hi Liz - haha - I'm hoping John is my exorcist on this one!

________________________________
From: John Viescas <mailto:JohnV%40msn.com>
To: mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2012, 21:20
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Phil-

What is different about GroupA and GroupB then? You claim that all authorization is done by user, but then why have two groups? There must be something that is different about how your app is handled between the two groups.

John Viescas, Author
Microsoft Access 2010 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2007 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2003 Inside Out
Building Microsoft Access Applications
SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
http://www.viescas.com/
(Paris, France)

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Knowles <mailto:pdk444444%40yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:29 PM
To: "mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com"
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Hi John

the embedded macro 'code' is

Openform
Form Name Form of info
View form
Filter Name
Where condition = [id]=[forms]![FormA]![id] Data Mode read only window mode normal

but as i said - this works perfectly for all users.

I have just tried moving userA1 from GroupA to GroupB and then userB1 from groupB to GroupA and the effect for those 2 users changes.

In other words, whatever is causing the 2 different effects is definitely to do with the groups and not the individual users

This strengthens my view that the problem must somehow lie in the area of permissions rather than logic - because I don't have ANY logic that is based on groups ONLY logic based on users.

?????

cheers

Phil

________________________________
From: John Viescas <mailto:JohnV%40msn.com>
To: mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2012, 16:05
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Phil-

The only event that should be firing is the Current event when switching between views. I just tried it with a simple form in 2007, and it maintains the position when switching, but the Current event fires again.
You've got a Requery somewhere or something else is going on to put the form back on the first row when switching views.

What, exactly, is the code in the Current Event embedded macro?

John Viescas, Author
Microsoft Access 2010 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2007 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2003 Inside Out
Building Microsoft Access Applications
SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
http://www.viescas.com/
(Paris, France)

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Knowles <mailto:pdk444444%40yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:36 PM
To: "mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com"
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Hi John (and Glenn)

Glenn - I know something is in there somewhere that is causing this and I accept that I might be blinded by being so close to the problem.

John- to answer your questions

there is an embedded macro in the 'on current' event of FormA which opens a form (based on a query) of information relating to the current record.

This works fine for both groups of users and there is nothing in it to distinguish between the 2 types of users.

All of the users in both groups can see the built in access menus / toolbars / ribbon and the same thing occurs if they use the drop down view options on the 'home' tab of the ribbon or use the right mouse button to select form view.

It is not related to how the user is switching views because I am logging on myself as the different users and using the same switching methods

cheers

Phil

________________________________
From: John Viescas <mailto:JohnV%40msn.com>
To: mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2012, 13:50
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Phil-

Is there any code in "FormA" that runs in the Open, Load, or Current event? How do users "switch to Form view?" Are users allowed to use the built-in Access menus / toolbars / Ribbon?

John Viescas, Author
Microsoft Access 2010 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2007 Inside Out
Microsoft Access 2003 Inside Out
Building Microsoft Access Applications
SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
http://www.viescas.com/
(Paris, France)

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Knowles <mailto:pdk444444%40yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:22 PM
To: "mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com"
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Hi Glenn

Thanks for your prompt reply.

There is no logic in the whole system that differentiates between either GroupA or GroupB or the users in those 2 groups - any logic that there is is to deal with users of GroupC - users of groupA and groupB always fall into the 'else' logic of an IF statement and therefore all conditions should be exactly the same. Or should they?

The only differences between GroupA and GroupB users lie in the permissions area.

cheers

Phil

________________________________
From: Glenn Lloyd <mailto:argeedblu%40gmail.com>
To: mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2012, 11:22
Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Phil,

It is difficult to diagnose this sort of problem without being able to see the actual form and the code associated with it, or at least the code. My guess is that there is something in either the Load or Open event handler for the form that tests either the user name or group and adjusts the recordset accordingly.

Glenn

From: mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Phil Knowles
Sent: October-30-12 7:07 AM
To: mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

Hi Guys

I got no response on this particular problem and I could really do with some guidance - I'll try and explain it more fully.

I have 2 groups of user - say GroupA and GroupB

GroupA has 2 users - say UserA1 and User A2 GroupB has 2 users - say UserB1 and UserB2

All the users use FormA with datasheet view as default.

When GroupA users change from datasheet view to form view the record displayed is whatever record was current in datasheet view but when GroupB users change views the record displayed is always the first record of the datasheet view (ie it seems to lose the current record flag)

GroupB has higher privileges than GroupA and I am also in GroupB and in addition I have ADMINS privileges but it also happens to me. (ie when I change views I get the first record rather than the current record)

Everything other than permissions is the same for both groups so I have been searching in there for an answer but am now stuck.

There is some code in a macro to direct a completely different group of users (GroupC) to a different form based on an If command dependent on current user along the lines of

if current user()="userC1" then openform FormB else openform FormA

*** [Side Note - I bet I could achieve this by testing current group rather than current user - is this possible]

Has anyone any ideas about what this could be or how I could track it down?

cheers

Phil

________________________________
From: pdk444444 <mailto:pdk444444%40yahoo.co.uk <mailto:pdk444444%40yahoo.co.uk> >
To: mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2012, 20:39
Subject: [MS_AccessPros] First record in a form

I have a form which my users display in datasheet view and then switch to form view.

It behaves differently for 2 groups of users.

For one group it retains the record from datasheet view but for the other group it reverts to the first record.

The group for which it reverts have higher privileges than the other group!!

What could be causing it to revert to the first record?

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