ACCESS FEED: Re: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value

Russ

Just a thought...If you deactivate the parent so it does not show in forms and reports all child records should also not show up. There would be no need to put an "Active" field in every table unless you need to keep all child records for historical purposes.

Bill

--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "ghsclass65" <dyspoz2@...> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> That's a messy bit alright. Quite a bit more work and probably not worth that much effort. Thanks for the thoughts.
>
> Russ
>
> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, John Viescas <JohnV@> wrote:
> >
> > Russ-
> >
> > You could do that, too, but would require a bit more code. The messy bit is
> > you'll also need to move any related child records. You could do that with
> > a series of Append queries.
> >
> > John Viescas, Author
> > Microsoft Access 2010 Inside Out
> > Microsoft Access 2007 Inside Out
> > Microsoft Access 2003 Inside Out
> > Building Microsoft Access Applications
> > SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
> > http://www.viescas.com/
> > (Paris, France)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ghsclass65
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 3:21 PM
> > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> >
> > John,
> >
> > That's simple enough to mark one as inactive. I always figured (maybe
> > incorrectly) that an archive record would be moved to a different table,
> > maybe called archive.
> >
> > Russ
> >
> >
> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, John Viescas <JohnV@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Russ-
> > >
> > > The basic technique is to add a column called "Deleted" or "Obsolete"
> > > to every table for which you want to do this. When a user requests to
> > > delete a record, your code simply sets that field to True and saves
> > > the record. For all your active forms, use a Record Source that
> > > includes criteria WHERE Deleted = False so that you display only
> > > active records. Oh, and when a user requests a deletion, you Requery
> > > the form after setting the flag so the user no longer sees the record.
> > >
> > > John Viescas, Author
> > > Microsoft Access 2010 Inside Out
> > > Microsoft Access 2007 Inside Out
> > > Microsoft Access 2003 Inside Out
> > > Building Microsoft Access Applications SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
> > > http://www.viescas.com/ (Paris, France)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > > ghsclass65
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 2:08 AM
> > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > Actually a pretty good idea. I would really like to mark or move a
> > > "customer" to an Archive file, but as of today am not quite sure how
> > > to do it.
> > >
> > > Russ
> > >
> > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca"
> > > <wrmosca@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Russ
> > > >
> > > > You could also write a routine that would mark the customer as
> > > > inactive
> > > and set up your forms and queries to ignore all inactive customers.
> > > That's how I do it. My users never delete parent records.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "ghsclass65"
> > > > <dyspoz2@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > John and Bill,
> > > > >
> > > > > The databases I've built do not have thousands of records for each
> > > "customer". In addition, when a delete function occurs a warning is
> > > always given in the form. I simply cannot be there to babysit the
> > > upkeep of a db and every deletion, but build in enough precautions to
> > > avoid mistakes that might be made. If cascading updates and deletions
> > > are not allowed, I would have to look at these things weekly or
> > > possibly daily, and I just want to build one that can be manageable by
> > > the user and not require my frequent attention.
> > > > >
> > > > > Russ
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca"
> > > > > <wrmosca@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John-
> > > > > > Exactly what I was getting at. It's a rare case when I want to
> > > > > > allow
> > > deletion of a parent when child records exist. I'd rather force parent
> > > and child records to be marked as inactive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, John Viescas
> > > > > > <JohnV@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Russ-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think Bill is suggesting that code in forms should to the
> > > > > > > checking and deleting after prompting the user. Consider the
> > > > > > > relationship Customer -> Order -> OrderDetails. If a user
> > > > > > > deletes a customer in a database with Cascade Delete turned
> > > > > > > on, he or she may not realize that perhaps thousands of rows
> > > > > > > will also disappear. I personally use Cascade Delete often,
> > > > > > > but then I also write code to check and inform the user in the
> > > > > > > Delete event of every form. Something like: "This action
> > > > > > > will permanently delete customer XXXX along with 540 Orders
> > > > > > > and 1,659
> > > Order Detail records. Are you SURE you want to proceed?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John Viescas, Author
> > > > > > > Microsoft Access 2010 Inside Out Microsoft Access 2007 Inside
> > > > > > > Out Microsoft Access 2003 Inside Out Building Microsoft Access
> > > > > > > Applications SQL Queries for Mere Mortals
> > > > > > > http://www.viescas.com/ (Paris, France)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > > > > > > ghsclass65
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 4:43 PM
> > > > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I do not understand your statement that relationships should
> > > > > > > not have cascading updates/deletes turned on. I build all my
> > > > > > > db that way and if I do not turn that feature on, then when
> > > > > > > someone deletes a record, it's related records in the
> > > > > > > connected tables are not deleted resulting in records that are
> > > > > > > in limbo with no
> > > corresponding records in other tables.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Russ
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Mosca"
> > > > > > > <wrmosca@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ray
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The user who did not delete a record would be the one who
> > > > > > > > sees the #deleted. It wouldn't cause chaos. User1 would just
> > > > > > > > have to refresh the
> > > > > > > form.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tampering with data directly in a table can be dangerous.
> > > > > > > > Users should have no way of opening tables. And
> > > > > > > > relationships should not have cascading updates/deletes
> > > > > > > > turned on. Cascading stuff should only be done by the DB
> > > > > > > > administrator should it ever
> > > be necessary.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When I mentioned the problem with network connectivity I was
> > > > > > > > saying the record itself could be corrected. By backing out
> > > > > > > > of the form, compacting the db and then opening the form
> > > > > > > > again to re-enter the data usually cleans up the corruption.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > > > > > > > Of Ray
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:54 AM
> > > > > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for that. The part of the database that is having
> > > > > > > > these errors has the structure tblContacts has many
> > tblContactNotes.
> > > > > > > > If User1 was using the form correctly (form for Contact,
> > > > > > > > subform for Notes) whilst
> > > > > > > > User2 went directly to the tblContactNotes and deleted a
> > > > > > > > record - would that cause chaos? Perhaps even #deleted?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I can come up with a plausible reason as to why some
> > > > > > > > records are being corrupted (data lost and replaced with
> > > > > > > > #deleted) I'm sure that I can change this culture of
> > > > > > > > tampering with the tables and lock the database
> > > > > > > down.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Finally, you said that network connectivity could be easily
> > > > > > > > remedied - is this an Access thing or a network server thing?
> > > > > > > > Where should I start to
> > > > > > > look?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for your help with this.
> > > > > > > > Ray
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill
> > Mosca"
> > > > > > > > <wrmosca@>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ray
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The first person to open the database is not creating a
> > > > > > > > > lock
> > > file.
> > > > > > > > > It is a
> > > > > > > > locking file. This file is used by the JET/ACE engine to
> > > > > > > > lock records that are being edited, nothing more as long as
> > > > > > > > the form in use has it's record locking set to Edited
> > > > > > > > Record. That keeps more than one person at a time from changing
> > a record.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is not the same as opening the database exclusively.
> > > > > > > > > If the first person
> > > > > > > > opens it exclusively or opens an object in design mode
> > > > > > > > everyone else is locked out. Exclusive mode actually locks
> > > > > > > > out all others from the
> > > > > > > entire db file.
> > > > > > > > Splitting the database and making sure each user is using
> > > > > > > > his own copy of the front end will still protect the
> > > > > > > > records, but will not lock others out of the back end. That
> > > > > > > > is because the back end is never opened
> > > > > > > directly by a user.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your multi-user db would benefit from splitting. It's very
> > > > > > > > > rare that a back
> > > > > > > > end table gets corrupt. Sometimes a record will corrupt due
> > > > > > > > to loss of network connectivity, but that sort of thing is
> > > > > > > > easily
> > > remedied.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray"
> > > > > > > > <rayfrew@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Bill
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The sad situation is that the database is not split,
> > > > > > > > > > it's just one file on a
> > > > > > > > server. Two people use it during the day by using Access to
> > > > > > > > open the mdb
> > > > > > > file.
> > > > > > > > The first person to open the database will create the lock
> > > > > > > > file - I'm not sure what happens when the next person opens
> > > > > > > > the database (whilst the first person is still using it).
> > > > > > > > Another aspect is that one person in India connects to the
> > > > > > > > server
> > > overnight and does some data input.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I've suggested that the database be split but so far
> > > > > > > > > > have been met with
> > > > > > > > "Why? Everything's working and not causing a problem" - well
> > > > > > > > now, perhaps
> > > > > > > it is.
> > > > > > > > Especially as one of the errors says that an update cannot
> > > > > > > > be done because someone else is updating - yet there is only
> > > > > > > > one person using the
> > > > > > > database.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If I split the database for them (data on server, forms
> > > > > > > > > > etc on
> > > > > > > > > > clients) will
> > > > > > > > the first person to open the database still create a lock
> > > > > > > > file and be the "owner" or does it work differently? I know
> > > > > > > > that splitting a database is good practice but can you give
> > > > > > > > me any pointers to the types of problems splitting solves?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Many thanks
> > > > > > > > > > Ray
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill
> > Mosca"
> > > > > > > > <wrmosca@>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ray
> > > > > > > > > > > >I don't think that an index was removed in this case
> > > > > > > > > > > >because the users wouldn't know how to. However, it
> > > > > > > > > > > >is more likely that there was a network problem -
> > > > > > > > > > > >apparently that happens occasionally.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Do you have the database in a split
> > > > > > > > > > > configuration with the tables
> > > > > > > > on a server and the forms, reports, queries etc on the users'
> > > > > > > > local drive? That would immensely reduce future
> > > > > > > > corruption...at least as far as the forms and queries are
> > > concerned .
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray"
> > > > > > > > <rayfrew@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Roberto
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that an index was removed in this case
> > > > > > > > > > > > because the users
> > > > > > > > wouldn't know how to. However, it is more likely that there
> > > > > > > > was a network problem - apparently that happens occasionally.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Things have moved forward now, because the database
> > > > > > > > > > > > has been recovered
> > > > > > > > from a backup, data is being rekeyed and another backup is
> > > > > > > > about to be
> > > > > > > taken.
> > > > > > > > Probably best to take more than one eh?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ray
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "RobertoARV"
> > > > > > > > <robertoarv@>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes when it happens , an index is removed,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > then you need to
> > > > > > > > delete
> > > > > > > > > > > > > records showing deleted# mark , run a compact
> > > > > > > > > > > > > database , recreate the
> > > > > > > > index
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and then create a blank database and import all
> > > > > > > > > > > > > objects from fixed database.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > > > > > Behalf Of RobertoARV
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:28 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field
> > > > > > > > > > > > > value
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen this for years with this database ,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > often happens when you migrate same database to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > another upper version, you need to install
> > > > > > > > all the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Microsoft jet service patches. it also occurs when
> > > > > > > > > > > > > you edit same
> > > > > > > > record in 2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > computers , it shows deleted in other computer but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it get fix when you
> > > > > > > > run a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > requery in form or simply close form and open it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > again. it happens too
> > > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a network disconnect occurs when you are editing a
> > > record.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ] On Behalf Of Bill
> > > > > > > > Mosca
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:39 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field
> > > > > > > > > > > > > value
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The most likely cause is a corrupted index. It
> > > > > > > > > > > > > might have been saved
> > > > > > > > if you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > imported it into a blank database (which sometimes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > fixes bad
> > > > > > > indices).
> > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > glad
> > > > > > > > > > > > > there was a backup, though. That was good thinking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > on your friend's
> > > > > > > > side.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Mosca,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals That'll do IT
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com MS
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Access MVP
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > <https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=C4D9F5E7-BB03-429
> > > > > > > > 1-
> > > > > > > > B816-642
> > > > > > > > 707308
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 81E>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=C4D9F5E7-BB03-4291
> > > > > > > > -B
> > > > > > > > 816-6427
> > > > > > > > 073088
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1E
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My Nothing-to-do-with Access blog
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://wrmosca.wordpress.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://wrmosca.wordpress.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ] On Behalf Of Ray
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:39 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you shed some light on this mystery? A friend
> > > > > > > > > > > > > has an Access 2003
> > > > > > > > db and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > > > > table has some rows with #deleted in each field
> > > > > > > > > > > > > rather than the data
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > used
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to be there. I suspect that they have used the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "delete record" button
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > toolbar to delete a few rows (I know, not a good
> > > > > > > > > > > > > idea) and that
> > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > went
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong. When a query runs on this table it returns
> > > > > > > > > > > > > an error saying that
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > record
> > > > > > > > > > > > > has been deleted and then stops dead.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > We recovered the database from a backup and life
> > > > > > > > > > > > > has
> > > moved on.
> > > > > > > > However, I've
> > > > > > > > > > > > > never seen this before, have you?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > > > > > > > > > > removed]
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > > > > > > > > > > removed]
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > > > > > > > > > > removed]
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>