ACCESS FEED: RE: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value

Ray

The user who did not delete a record would be the one who sees the #deleted. It
wouldn't cause chaos. User1 would just have to refresh the form.

Tampering with data directly in a table can be dangerous. Users should have no
way of opening tables. And relationships should not have cascading
updates/deletes turned on. Cascading stuff should only be done by the DB
administrator should it ever be necessary.

When I mentioned the problem with network connectivity I was saying the record
itself could be corrected. By backing out of the form, compacting the db and
then opening the form again to re-enter the data usually cleans up the
corruption.

Regards,

Bill

From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 9:54 AM
To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value

Hi Bill

Thanks for that. The part of the database that is having these errors has the
structure tblContacts has many tblContactNotes. If User1 was using the form
correctly (form for Contact, subform for Notes) whilst User2 went directly to
the tblContactNotes and deleted a record - would that cause chaos? Perhaps even
#deleted?

If I can come up with a plausible reason as to why some records are being
corrupted (data lost and replaced with #deleted) I'm sure that I can change this
culture of tampering with the tables and lock the database down.

Finally, you said that network connectivity could be easily remedied - is this
an Access thing or a network server thing? Where should I start to look?

Thanks for your help with this.
Ray

--- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@...>
wrote:
>
> Ray
>
> The first person to open the database is not creating a lock file. It is a
locking file. This file is used by the JET/ACE engine to lock records that are
being edited, nothing more as long as the form in use has it's record locking
set to Edited Record. That keeps more than one person at a time from changing a
record.
>
> This is not the same as opening the database exclusively. If the first person
opens it exclusively or opens an object in design mode everyone else is locked
out. Exclusive mode actually locks out all others from the entire db file.
Splitting the database and making sure each user is using his own copy of the
front end will still protect the records, but will not lock others out of the
back end. That is because the back end is never opened directly by a user.
>
> Your multi-user db would benefit from splitting. It's very rare that a back
end table gets corrupt. Sometimes a record will corrupt due to loss of network
connectivity, but that sort of thing is easily remedied.
>
> Bill
>
> --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray" <rayfrew@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bill
> >
> > The sad situation is that the database is not split, it's just one file on a
server. Two people use it during the day by using Access to open the mdb file.
The first person to open the database will create the lock file - I'm not sure
what happens when the next person opens the database (whilst the first person is
still using it). Another aspect is that one person in India connects to the
server overnight and does some data input.
> >
> > I've suggested that the database be split but so far have been met with
"Why? Everything's working and not causing a problem" - well now, perhaps it is.
Especially as one of the errors says that an update cannot be done because
someone else is updating - yet there is only one person using the database.
> >
> > If I split the database for them (data on server, forms etc on clients) will
the first person to open the database still create a lock file and be the
"owner" or does it work differently? I know that splitting a database is good
practice but can you give me any pointers to the types of problems splitting
solves?
> >
> > Many thanks
> > Ray
> >
> > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bill Mosca" <wrmosca@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Ray
> > > >I don't think that an index was removed in this case because the
> > > >users wouldn't
> > > >know how to. However, it is more likely that there was a network
> > > >problem -
> > > >apparently that happens occasionally.
> > >
> > > I agree. Do you have the database in a split configuration with the tables
on a server and the forms, reports, queries etc on the users' local drive? That
would immensely reduce future corruption...at least as far as the forms and
queries are concerned .
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray" <rayfrew@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Roberto
> > > >
> > > > I don't think that an index was removed in this case because the users
wouldn't know how to. However, it is more likely that there was a network
problem - apparently that happens occasionally.
> > > >
> > > > Things have moved forward now, because the database has been recovered
from a backup, data is being rekeyed and another backup is about to be taken.
Probably best to take more than one eh?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your help.
> > > > Ray
> > > >
> > > > --- In MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> , "RobertoARV" <robertoarv@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Sometimes when it happens , an index is removed, then you need to
delete
> > > > > records showing deleted# mark , run a compact database , recreate the
index
> > > > > and then create a blank database and import all objects from fixed
> > > > > database.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of RobertoARV
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:28 AM
> > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have seen this for years with this database , often happens when you
> > > > > migrate same database to another upper version, you need to install
all the
> > > > > Microsoft jet service patches. it also occurs when you edit same
record in 2
> > > > > computers , it shows deleted in other computer but it get fix when you
run a
> > > > > requery in form or simply close form and open it again. it happens too
when
> > > > > a network disconnect occurs when you are editing a record.
> > > > >
> > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill
Mosca
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:39 AM
> > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Subject: RE: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > > > >
> > > > > Ray
> > > > >
> > > > > The most likely cause is a corrupted index. It might have been saved
if you
> > > > > imported it into a blank database (which sometimes fixes bad indices).
I'm
> > > > > glad
> > > > > there was a backup, though. That was good thinking on your friend's
side.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Bill Mosca,
> > > > > Founder, MS_Access_Professionals
> > > > > That'll do IT <http://thatlldoit.com/> http://thatlldoit.com
> > > > > MS Access MVP
> > > > >
> > > > >
<https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=C4D9F5E7-BB03-4291-B816-642707308
> > > > > 81E>
> > > > >
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=C4D9F5E7-BB03-4291-B816-6427073088
> > > > > 1E
> > > > >
> > > > > My Nothing-to-do-with Access blog
> > > > >
> > > > > <http://wrmosca.wordpress.com> http://wrmosca.wordpress.com
> > > > >
> > > > > From: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > [mailto:MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Ray
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:39 AM
> > > > > To: MS_Access_Professionals@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > <mailto:MS_Access_Professionals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Subject: [MS_AccessPros] #deleted in a field value
> > > > >
> > > > > Can you shed some light on this mystery? A friend has an Access 2003
db and
> > > > > one
> > > > > table has some rows with #deleted in each field rather than the data
that
> > > > > used
> > > > > to be there. I suspect that they have used the "delete record" button
from
> > > > > the
> > > > > toolbar to delete a few rows (I know, not a good idea) and that
something
> > > > > went
> > > > > wrong. When a query runs on this table it returns an error saying that
a
> > > > > record
> > > > > has been deleted and then stops dead.
> > > > >
> > > > > We recovered the database from a backup and life has moved on.
However, I've
> > > > > never seen this before, have you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Many thanks
> > > > > Ray
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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